Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Singing / harshness in Challenger 180
#1
Wink 
Hi
I have had a problem with singing /harshness in one of my Challengers 180. After some discussions with Importer and Hans Kise in Norway we swooped all tubes from one amp to the other and problem moved...conclusion tube problem. Idea Tubes have less than 500 hours as today.  

After some trying and failing by carefully tapping the 3 front tubes when the sound appered I found that the center 12AX7 tube had a problem. I had a pair of Philips NOS 12AX7 in house that Hans had tested for me earlier for other equipment.... Like a new amplifier. So the roumer that  tube quality didn't matter is false. 
The singing has never come back, but now the harshness is back if I play a full day--more than 8 hours it starts.
I powered down the Sunilda, than the Eclipse...still harshness in the loudspeaker. Tried tapping on the tubes as hans told me last time. Could not localize which tube.
If I put it in Standby for 5 minutes it disappears and it takes some hours before its back again. 
Its quite irritating that I to often find my-selves listening for harshness instead listening to the music  Huh  

Du you have any suggestions?. The amps are less than a year old....  Should I replace more tubes? but that is a cost issue again....
Reply
#2
Hi Bernt, I discuss tomorow with my engineers the probs your amps and send you comments our idear whats happend, nice sunday fornow, Helmut

I move its theme in the "support lounge" ..
never chance a running system ...
Reply
#3
Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut
Reply
#4
(03-22-2017, 11:29 AM)Bernd Wrote: Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut

The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)
Reply
#5
(03-22-2017, 12:08 PM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 11:29 AM)Bernd Wrote: Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut

The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)

you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
never chance a running system ...
Reply
#6
(03-22-2017, 05:01 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 12:08 PM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 11:29 AM)Bernd Wrote: Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut

The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)

you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
One more Bernt, Eclipse sound at the best when VOLUME pot stay higher then 12 o`clock and more ...
What INPUT you use by the Eclpse and what music source you listen most time ?
never chance a running system ...
Reply
#7
(03-22-2017, 05:45 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:01 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 12:08 PM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 11:29 AM)Bernd Wrote: Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut

The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)

you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
One more Bernt, Eclipse sound at the best when VOLUME pot stay higher then 12 o`clock and more ...
What INPUT you use by the Eclpse and what music source you listen most time ?
I use AUX1 for the Sunilda RIIA -(Oracle Delphi w SME309 and Lyra Helicon) mostly. I also use a DAC ( Naim V-1) on TUN. CD player is on CD1.
I can not pass 12 oClock... If I do I need to put up new walls. 11oClock playing Beethoven has loud pressure like beeing in center of a Metallica consert. I wonder what input can be used to lower gain allowing me to use 12oClock.
But this has nothing with my problems to do. I can only power up the Challenger and leave it on for a day and it starts to send BUSS to the loudspeaker. If you read earlier in my post I have swooped tubes between them and the problem moved.  Part of the problem dissapered when I replaced the 12AX7 tubes, but not the rest. The new 12AX7 tubes are checked by Hans Kise and are of top quality. I did though swoop them last night, but buss did not move...this morning on the same channal.
Do you think this is from the 12AU tubes??? or is it a Power tube?  taking one tube at the time will take weeks.... I am not in the mood for that. Than its easier to replace the tubes directly on the Challenger, but where to start?? 12AU or Power?
Reply
#8
(03-23-2017, 10:25 AM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:45 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:01 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 12:08 PM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 11:29 AM)Bernd Wrote: Hello Bernt,

for me need know, thats a prob from ECLIPSE or Challengers. Can you tell me please, what source you use, what Eclipse input you use and what VOLUME angel stay volume control on the Eclipse ??

thx Helmut

The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)

you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
One more Bernt, Eclipse sound at the best when VOLUME pot stay higher then 12 o`clock and more ...
What INPUT you use by the Eclpse and what music source you listen most time ?
I use AUX1 for the Sunilda RIIA -(Oracle Delphi w SME309 and Lyra Helicon) mostly. I also use a DAC ( Naim V-1) on TUN. CD player is on CD1.
I can not pass 12 oClock... If I do I need to put up new walls. 11oClock playing Beethoven has loud pressure like beeing in center of a Metallica consert. I wonder what input can be used to lower gain allowing me to use 12oClock.
But this has nothing with my problems to do. I can only power up the Challenger and leave it on for a day and it starts to send BUSS to the loudspeaker. If you read earlier in my post I have swooped tubes between them and the problem moved.  Part of the problem dissapered when I replaced the 12AX7 tubes, but not the rest. The new 12AX7 tubes are checked by Hans Kise and are of top quality. I did though swoop them last night, but buss did not move...this morning on the same channal.
Do you think this is from the 12AU tubes??? or is it a Power tube?  taking one tube at the time will take weeks.... I am not in the mood for that. Than its easier to replace the tubes directly on the Challenger, but where to start?? 12AU or Power?
When no red LED near by the power tube shining - they all ok. So I think maybe its the bridge rectivier or its condenser in front left side for driver filament.
It looks like a temperatur prob, thats typical for its both parts. Can we send you its pat for replace ? Give me address please ....
Reply
#9
(03-23-2017, 10:51 AM)Bernd Wrote:
(03-23-2017, 10:25 AM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:45 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:01 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 12:08 PM)Bernt Wrote: The harshness buss is there even after Eclipse is switch off.
 Input from Eclipse is Balanced (Audioquest Niagara XLR).  Volume around 9 oClock pluss minus an hour or so. I dont think I ever have had the Eclipse to 12 oCloc... I need to be in the room :-)

you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
One more Bernt, Eclipse sound at the best when VOLUME pot stay higher then 12 o`clock and more ...
What INPUT you use by the Eclpse and what music source you listen most time ?
I use AUX1 for the Sunilda RIIA -(Oracle Delphi w SME309 and Lyra Helicon) mostly. I also use a DAC ( Naim V-1) on TUN. CD player is on CD1.
I can not pass 12 oClock... If I do I need to put up new walls. 11oClock playing Beethoven has loud pressure like beeing in center of a Metallica consert. I wonder what input can be used to lower gain allowing me to use 12oClock.
But this has nothing with my problems to do. I can only power up the Challenger and leave it on for a day and it starts to send BUSS to the loudspeaker. If you read earlier in my post I have swooped tubes between them and the problem moved.  Part of the problem dissapered when I replaced the 12AX7 tubes, but not the rest. The new 12AX7 tubes are checked by Hans Kise and are of top quality. I did though swoop them last night, but buss did not move...this morning on the same channal.
Do you think this is from the 12AU tubes??? or is it a Power tube?  taking one tube at the time will take weeks.... I am not in the mood for that. Than its easier to replace the tubes directly on the Challenger, but where to start?? 12AU or Power?
When no red LED near by the power tube shining - they all ok. So I think maybe its the bridge rectivier or its condenser in front left side for driver filament.
It looks like a temperatur prob, thats typical for its both parts. Can we send you its pat for replace ? Give me address please ....

Please sent it to Hans Kise who is the approved service in Norway. You have the address. Due to Norwegian warranty rules I cant do anything except changing tubes my-selves.
I will contact Hans directly :-)
Thanks
Bernt
Reply
#10
(03-24-2017, 01:13 AM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-23-2017, 10:51 AM)Bernd Wrote:
(03-23-2017, 10:25 AM)Bernt Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:45 PM)AudioValve Wrote:
(03-22-2017, 05:01 PM)AudioValve Wrote: you think its a rising gound noise or a main power AC hum what you can listen after you switch OFF the Eclipse ? I remember that some 12AX7 have bad isolation between cathode and filament, I think its comes from the driver stage ... Can you swap one tube after other from left to right amp and hear what tube make its trouble ?
One more Bernt, Eclipse sound at the best when VOLUME pot stay higher then 12 o`clock and more ...
What INPUT you use by the Eclpse and what music source you listen most time ?
I use AUX1 for the Sunilda RIIA -(Oracle Delphi w SME309 and Lyra Helicon) mostly. I also use a DAC ( Naim V-1) on TUN. CD player is on CD1.
I can not pass 12 oClock... If I do I need to put up new walls. 11oClock playing Beethoven has loud pressure like beeing in center of a Metallica consert. I wonder what input can be used to lower gain allowing me to use 12oClock.
But this has nothing with my problems to do. I can only power up the Challenger and leave it on for a day and it starts to send BUSS to the loudspeaker. If you read earlier in my post I have swooped tubes between them and the problem moved.  Part of the problem dissapered when I replaced the 12AX7 tubes, but not the rest. The new 12AX7 tubes are checked by Hans Kise and are of top quality. I did though swoop them last night, but buss did not move...this morning on the same channal.
Do you think this is from the 12AU tubes??? or is it a Power tube?  taking one tube at the time will take weeks.... I am not in the mood for that. Than its easier to replace the tubes directly on the Challenger, but where to start?? 12AU or Power?
When no red LED near by the power tube shining - they all ok. So I think maybe its the bridge rectivier or its condenser in front left side for driver filament.
It looks like a temperatur prob, thats typical for its both parts. Can we send you its pat for replace ? Give me address please ....

Please sent it to Hans Kise who is the approved service in Norway. You have the address. Due to Norwegian warranty rules I cant do anything except changing tubes my-selves.
I will contact Hans directly :-)
Thanks
Bernt
Ok, I send Hans a mail we and analyse what is to do ...
Nice weekend - Helmut
never chance a running system ...
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)